I love endnotes, but stand with you in the opinion that footnotes would have been more convenient.
I have often wondered whether EE would have become a writer--or maybe more specifically a KNOWN writer--without the platform provided by the spearing. I expect that talent trumped platform in her era?
One of the main gifts of your work was the contextualization of EE’s life. I have had the mistaken tendency to think of her as a contemporary figure. Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, she was shaped by a very specific subset of evangelicalism. Certainly the self-discipline and rigorous biblicism her family instilled were foundational to the person she became.
We should start a campaign to normalize split endnotes and footnotes! :)
And I think that's a very live question. I think platform mattered in 1956, though it looked different than it does today, but even if talent was all that mattered--it's hard to imagine that if Jim had lived to a ripe old age she would ever have gotten around to writing his biography, or that if she had, it would have gotten attention from Harper & Row. And while she was a talented writer, the kind of editing she received from Harpers greatly strengthened her writing. So even her talent might not have been honed as it was otherwise.
And I'm glad you've found the contextualization important. And I agree, being *contemporaneous* with her makes her seem contemporary in the sense of "belonging to the present," when in many ways she belongs to another time. I was really struck during the writing process that when she left for Ecuador it was on a ship with trunks for her luggage, and when she came back ~a decade later it was by plane with suitcases. The world had suddenly modernized.
Yes, great thoughts on the way her writing skills and opportunities for future assignments would have been impacted by that early tragedy. And I hadn’t noticed that transportation difference, but I do recall her referring to sort of grumpy wrestling matches with her computer.
Oh, yes! I felt badly for her as she wrestled with the computer, particularly once it became clear that some of her challenges with it were probably due to early dementia.
I am more likely to read prefatory material if it is written by the author him/herself. If it is a modern introduction to an old classic text, I prefer to dive into the text itself and possibly read the introduction later. Forewords, in my experience, are often an excuse to associate a more famous name with the book in the hope of increasing sales. Whether I read them largely depends on if I can finish them in three minutes or less.
That makes perfect sense, and I totally agree about a modern intro to an older text. I want to meet the story first on its own terms (as much as that's possible for a modern reader!).
Thanks so much for this overview and the thought-provoking questions. So interesting.
I usually do read prefatory material, and I especially love reading about a biographical author's interest in their subject. And as to the prologue: I think the story of the 5 men IS how most people are familiar with Elliot, but there's so much more than that to her. Ch. 1 shows a lot about how she was shaped. Her childhood seemed really idyllic (that vacation house!) but very much framed by discipline and rigour. I was struck by her father being asked to take over the publishing company and agreeing to do so, even though it went directly against his desire. There was that foundation of total submission to God's will -- and even a hint of "God's will is likely what you most want NOT to do." I think there was a lot of that in Elisabeth as well.
I was just looking back at the opening pages and realized I almost missed the Hopkins poem you put in just before the table of contents.: "That Nature Is a Heraclitean Fire." That's incredibly powerful and fitting.
It is interesting what a mixture her childhood was, but there was definitely a lot that was wonderful, especially from a child's point of view (I imagine that wonderful vacation house with no modern conveniences was not much vacation for her mother in many ways!!). And yes, although EE wasn't aware of that decision regarding the SST when it was being made, you can see her parents' approach to understanding and obeying the will of God in that decision, and see how it was passed on to her, whether consciously, unconsciously, or (probably) in a mixture of the two.
And I'm so glad you appreciate the Hopkins' poem! I chose it well into the writing process, and hoped it would connect the beginning and the end and bring the book full-circle.
I found it interesting to hear about your process in writing the prologue and epilogue, while struggling with the rough draft of the book.
Regarding endnotes and footnotes, I did think that endnotes 7 and 12, on Philip’s faithful work on the SST and Essie’s friendship and death, added to the story and were worthy of at least footnote status.
I like to read prefaces of books, but only if they are short and to the point, like this one. It helps me to understand the author’s goals and challenges, and enriches the rest of the story.
I’m interested in and intrigued by Elisabeth’s personality, and have enjoyed reading the reflections on her “intellectually Victorian” early childhood. It seems reminiscent of Louisa May Alcott’s Little Women.
I’ve been listening to some of her podcasts, both for inspiration and to get to know her better. She often refers to her childhood as a model for Christian homes - her father praying early in the morning; family devotions; hymn singing; her mother’s spanking switches above each door frame; childhood chores; missionary visits.
Quite often I think I can also hear the voice that some regarded as blunt or overly dramatic – she speaks of those awful women’s magazines at the hairdresser’s, how children just don’t listen anymore, and how they must be taught good table manners. (Those are from memory, not direct quotes.) I look forward to those little moments, and that part of her personality that is a little awkward, anachronistic and endearing to me. She was influenced by sincere faith with a Victorian slant that formed her sense of propriety and piety. Hampden DuBose Academy would also have had a huge influence that both helped and haunted her to the end of her days.
As for feedback regarding the post, it was all very interesting, and answered any questions I had about the book so far. And it was fun to check online to see what numbered apples were all about.
Thank you for the feedback, Gail. I appreciate it! It's great to hear your thoughts on her radio programs, now a podcast, and how various aspects of her personality show up there. The Little Women connection is a particularly interesting one and I'm going to be thinking about that!
Referencing EE's Victorian upbringing and her heritage as one of the early leading families in New England, I wonder if she was part of a generation of children that felt a responsibility to fulfill their duty to (in this case, Christian) society? Dating back to her great-grandfather, Henry Clay Trumbull and his sister, Annie Trumbull Slosson, EE’s upbringing encompassed a life dating back to the early 1800s. She mentions looking at a picture of the Trumbull family: “As I look at the picture I am aware of how much has been given and how much will yet be required of me” (Love has a Price Tag, 1979). I continue to be impressed by the significance of the span of time between a Victorian age, the development of modernity during her missionary years, and then the many decades she spent writing and speaking. Do you think this is a helpful way to understand what may have contributed to the many paradoxes we see throughout her life? Personally it has helped me be more understanding regarding the paradoxes that are so obvious.
I can’t resist sharing this quote by her brother’s editor, Joseph Pearce, upon Thomas’ death: ”Thomas Howard was a bona fide gentleman, in the old-fashioned sense of the word. He was chivalrous to the very core of his being and self-effacing in a completely genuine and unconscious way. He spoke in archaisms that made it appear that he had stepped out of a time-machine, or a wardrobe, from a different age and place; and, it must be said, from a much better age and place. He was a walking witness of all that is good and gracious in life, serving, therefore, as a tacit reminder of all that’s been lost in our culture’s abandonment of the goodness, truth, and beauty that breathes life into life itself."
It is interesting to think about! I see a blend of a strong sense of duty with a strong sense of individualism, and the two themes seem like they are pulling against each other, at least at times. And I'm sure you're right that it contributes to the paradoxes or inconsistencies in her life.
I had the privilege of spending several hours with Thomas Howard, first over the phone and then in his home as I was interviewing him for this book, and from what I could see this is an accurate assessment. He was a delight to spend time with.
Continuing the conversation, I always read the introductory materials carefully to understand the setting, intent, etc. So, I very much appreciated the "aquarium, ocean and water in which we swim" metaphor in your Preface because it showed that you were setting EE's life in a larger historical and cultural context, while at the same time describing her specific milieu. It seems that both are essential to making sense of EE's important, and sometimes confusing, life events. I think what stood out for me at this point is the sense that we are about to begin an epic tale.
Hi Priscilla, and thanks for continuing the conversation! I'm glad to hear that metaphor resonated for you, and that it conveyed a sense of the gravitas of the story. That's great to hear. I'd love to hear more about your previous experience with EE if you have time!
Thanks for the window into your process. 😊 Since my initial reading was in the ebook, I missed most of the end notes but am working my way through them now, after the fact. I was two-thirds through the book when I discovered that many of them were explanatory rather than citations only. Footnotes for explanatory notes and endnotes for references really would be ideal from a functional standpoint. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that done, but one could certainly try it in a self-published book.
You may have hit on something in calling her childhood/upbringing Victorian, though chronologically it wasn’t. Interesting thought. ♥️
You're welcome! And that's interesting, about the ebook. I haven't used an ereader very much but I do remember it being tedious to "flip" back to check something on a page I'd already read, so it makes sense that footnotes would be really difficult to look at as you go.
It depends on how the ebook has been put together - sometimes you click on the Footnote and it appears on the same screen, overlayiing the text, which is super-convenient. Other times it does involve moving backwards and forwards, which is a bit of a pain (as it is with physical books; give me footnotes every time).
That's really interesting--the former is a great idea. My only exposure to e-reading has been the latter, and as a result I've done very little e-reading.
I love endnotes, but stand with you in the opinion that footnotes would have been more convenient.
I have often wondered whether EE would have become a writer--or maybe more specifically a KNOWN writer--without the platform provided by the spearing. I expect that talent trumped platform in her era?
One of the main gifts of your work was the contextualization of EE’s life. I have had the mistaken tendency to think of her as a contemporary figure. Sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, she was shaped by a very specific subset of evangelicalism. Certainly the self-discipline and rigorous biblicism her family instilled were foundational to the person she became.
We should start a campaign to normalize split endnotes and footnotes! :)
And I think that's a very live question. I think platform mattered in 1956, though it looked different than it does today, but even if talent was all that mattered--it's hard to imagine that if Jim had lived to a ripe old age she would ever have gotten around to writing his biography, or that if she had, it would have gotten attention from Harper & Row. And while she was a talented writer, the kind of editing she received from Harpers greatly strengthened her writing. So even her talent might not have been honed as it was otherwise.
And I'm glad you've found the contextualization important. And I agree, being *contemporaneous* with her makes her seem contemporary in the sense of "belonging to the present," when in many ways she belongs to another time. I was really struck during the writing process that when she left for Ecuador it was on a ship with trunks for her luggage, and when she came back ~a decade later it was by plane with suitcases. The world had suddenly modernized.
Yes, great thoughts on the way her writing skills and opportunities for future assignments would have been impacted by that early tragedy. And I hadn’t noticed that transportation difference, but I do recall her referring to sort of grumpy wrestling matches with her computer.
Oh, yes! I felt badly for her as she wrestled with the computer, particularly once it became clear that some of her challenges with it were probably due to early dementia.
I am more likely to read prefatory material if it is written by the author him/herself. If it is a modern introduction to an old classic text, I prefer to dive into the text itself and possibly read the introduction later. Forewords, in my experience, are often an excuse to associate a more famous name with the book in the hope of increasing sales. Whether I read them largely depends on if I can finish them in three minutes or less.
That makes perfect sense, and I totally agree about a modern intro to an older text. I want to meet the story first on its own terms (as much as that's possible for a modern reader!).
Thanks so much for this overview and the thought-provoking questions. So interesting.
I usually do read prefatory material, and I especially love reading about a biographical author's interest in their subject. And as to the prologue: I think the story of the 5 men IS how most people are familiar with Elliot, but there's so much more than that to her. Ch. 1 shows a lot about how she was shaped. Her childhood seemed really idyllic (that vacation house!) but very much framed by discipline and rigour. I was struck by her father being asked to take over the publishing company and agreeing to do so, even though it went directly against his desire. There was that foundation of total submission to God's will -- and even a hint of "God's will is likely what you most want NOT to do." I think there was a lot of that in Elisabeth as well.
I was just looking back at the opening pages and realized I almost missed the Hopkins poem you put in just before the table of contents.: "That Nature Is a Heraclitean Fire." That's incredibly powerful and fitting.
Jeannie, thank you for reading!
It is interesting what a mixture her childhood was, but there was definitely a lot that was wonderful, especially from a child's point of view (I imagine that wonderful vacation house with no modern conveniences was not much vacation for her mother in many ways!!). And yes, although EE wasn't aware of that decision regarding the SST when it was being made, you can see her parents' approach to understanding and obeying the will of God in that decision, and see how it was passed on to her, whether consciously, unconsciously, or (probably) in a mixture of the two.
And I'm so glad you appreciate the Hopkins' poem! I chose it well into the writing process, and hoped it would connect the beginning and the end and bring the book full-circle.
I found it interesting to hear about your process in writing the prologue and epilogue, while struggling with the rough draft of the book.
Regarding endnotes and footnotes, I did think that endnotes 7 and 12, on Philip’s faithful work on the SST and Essie’s friendship and death, added to the story and were worthy of at least footnote status.
I like to read prefaces of books, but only if they are short and to the point, like this one. It helps me to understand the author’s goals and challenges, and enriches the rest of the story.
I’m interested in and intrigued by Elisabeth’s personality, and have enjoyed reading the reflections on her “intellectually Victorian” early childhood. It seems reminiscent of Louisa May Alcott’s Little Women.
I’ve been listening to some of her podcasts, both for inspiration and to get to know her better. She often refers to her childhood as a model for Christian homes - her father praying early in the morning; family devotions; hymn singing; her mother’s spanking switches above each door frame; childhood chores; missionary visits.
Quite often I think I can also hear the voice that some regarded as blunt or overly dramatic – she speaks of those awful women’s magazines at the hairdresser’s, how children just don’t listen anymore, and how they must be taught good table manners. (Those are from memory, not direct quotes.) I look forward to those little moments, and that part of her personality that is a little awkward, anachronistic and endearing to me. She was influenced by sincere faith with a Victorian slant that formed her sense of propriety and piety. Hampden DuBose Academy would also have had a huge influence that both helped and haunted her to the end of her days.
As for feedback regarding the post, it was all very interesting, and answered any questions I had about the book so far. And it was fun to check online to see what numbered apples were all about.
Thank you for the feedback, Gail. I appreciate it! It's great to hear your thoughts on her radio programs, now a podcast, and how various aspects of her personality show up there. The Little Women connection is a particularly interesting one and I'm going to be thinking about that!
Referencing EE's Victorian upbringing and her heritage as one of the early leading families in New England, I wonder if she was part of a generation of children that felt a responsibility to fulfill their duty to (in this case, Christian) society? Dating back to her great-grandfather, Henry Clay Trumbull and his sister, Annie Trumbull Slosson, EE’s upbringing encompassed a life dating back to the early 1800s. She mentions looking at a picture of the Trumbull family: “As I look at the picture I am aware of how much has been given and how much will yet be required of me” (Love has a Price Tag, 1979). I continue to be impressed by the significance of the span of time between a Victorian age, the development of modernity during her missionary years, and then the many decades she spent writing and speaking. Do you think this is a helpful way to understand what may have contributed to the many paradoxes we see throughout her life? Personally it has helped me be more understanding regarding the paradoxes that are so obvious.
I can’t resist sharing this quote by her brother’s editor, Joseph Pearce, upon Thomas’ death: ”Thomas Howard was a bona fide gentleman, in the old-fashioned sense of the word. He was chivalrous to the very core of his being and self-effacing in a completely genuine and unconscious way. He spoke in archaisms that made it appear that he had stepped out of a time-machine, or a wardrobe, from a different age and place; and, it must be said, from a much better age and place. He was a walking witness of all that is good and gracious in life, serving, therefore, as a tacit reminder of all that’s been lost in our culture’s abandonment of the goodness, truth, and beauty that breathes life into life itself."
It is interesting to think about! I see a blend of a strong sense of duty with a strong sense of individualism, and the two themes seem like they are pulling against each other, at least at times. And I'm sure you're right that it contributes to the paradoxes or inconsistencies in her life.
I had the privilege of spending several hours with Thomas Howard, first over the phone and then in his home as I was interviewing him for this book, and from what I could see this is an accurate assessment. He was a delight to spend time with.
Continuing the conversation, I always read the introductory materials carefully to understand the setting, intent, etc. So, I very much appreciated the "aquarium, ocean and water in which we swim" metaphor in your Preface because it showed that you were setting EE's life in a larger historical and cultural context, while at the same time describing her specific milieu. It seems that both are essential to making sense of EE's important, and sometimes confusing, life events. I think what stood out for me at this point is the sense that we are about to begin an epic tale.
Hi Priscilla, and thanks for continuing the conversation! I'm glad to hear that metaphor resonated for you, and that it conveyed a sense of the gravitas of the story. That's great to hear. I'd love to hear more about your previous experience with EE if you have time!
Thanks for the window into your process. 😊 Since my initial reading was in the ebook, I missed most of the end notes but am working my way through them now, after the fact. I was two-thirds through the book when I discovered that many of them were explanatory rather than citations only. Footnotes for explanatory notes and endnotes for references really would be ideal from a functional standpoint. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen that done, but one could certainly try it in a self-published book.
You may have hit on something in calling her childhood/upbringing Victorian, though chronologically it wasn’t. Interesting thought. ♥️
You're welcome! And that's interesting, about the ebook. I haven't used an ereader very much but I do remember it being tedious to "flip" back to check something on a page I'd already read, so it makes sense that footnotes would be really difficult to look at as you go.
It depends on how the ebook has been put together - sometimes you click on the Footnote and it appears on the same screen, overlayiing the text, which is super-convenient. Other times it does involve moving backwards and forwards, which is a bit of a pain (as it is with physical books; give me footnotes every time).
That's really interesting--the former is a great idea. My only exposure to e-reading has been the latter, and as a result I've done very little e-reading.